Ask Me Anything with the ServiceNow - Chief Revenue Officer. Kevin Havertly leads ServiceNow's amazing revenue function.
[00:00:01.470] - David Nour
Hi, everybody, my name is David Nor I'm one of the co-hosts of the Tech Sales Insight podcast series, and I'm delighted to be joined by my other co-host, Randy Sitel.
[00:00:11.790] - Randy Seidl
Hi, Randy Seidl, thanks so much for doing this with us. Full disclosure up until now with our weekly podcast series called Tech Sales Insights, we've done live Twitter chats. Kevin was kind enough given twenty four twenty four hour notice, which isn't much to say. Hey, let's see, this is a live AMA. Got a lot of great responses, a lot of great feedback. So on behalf of the sales community, I definitely appreciate everybody joining in. And I will say if you have any questions, please put them in the chat room.
[00:00:43.080] - Randy Seidl
Nobody can speak up lives. You don't have to worry about the waste of time. So we'll do our best to address any questions that you do have. Kevin, maybe tell us a little bit about you. All right, well, thanks for having me on, Noor and Randy, it's great to be here. I am the chief revenue officer for ServiceNow and I've been with ServiceNow since twenty eleven. So I'm coming up on my 10 year anniversary, and it's been an amazing run, and we're just getting started, as they say.
[00:01:14.490] - David Nour
So, Kevin, for our audience who may not be as familiar with ServiceNow, talk a little about what the company does and the impact you create for your end customers.
[00:01:23.130] - Kevin Haverty
Sure, service is a platform company. We're one hundred percent SACE, one hundred percent subscription based, and we deliver an enterprise solution for our customers that helps them automate all the functions across the whole suite of I.T. workflows, customer workflows, employee workflows and what we call creator workflows. That's our no code low code, part of the platform where our customers develop their own apps in-house on the platform to solve all kinds of different business challenges.
[00:01:55.920] - David Nour
So the customers who is that?
[00:01:58.020] - Kevin Haverty
The traditional kind of technology and tech development team within enterprises for part of our solution for the IT workflows, it's sold into it, but it's also sold into customer operations and customer service. The employee workloads are sold into H.R. in all other departments, wherever there are employees. And then the platform is for the citizen developer. They're mostly I.T. people, but they could also be business associates across any other business unit across the environment. So our roots are in it, but we've expanded across the whole enterprise over the years.
[00:02:34.530] - David Nour
So, Randy, I'm going to ask you this question. I was fascinated when Kevin I spoke on the podcast that he's been in this company in this role for, you know, going on almost 10 years. Isn't that unusual for sales leadership role? And, you know, Kevin, what do you believe attributes to success at ServiceNow?
[00:02:52.020] - Randy Seidl
Yeah, the the I mean, the only other one, some of this engineering this morning, and I think Billy Scandal is probably the only other one that I can think of any longer. And that's maybe cheating because he had kind of EMC to Dell. But to have you be there that long, that's successful under too kind of hardcore strong CEOs or really no sales is a great a great attribute to you. But I think kind of a I think it's a great calmness that he has obviously to navigate with wigged out.
[00:03:21.750] - Randy Seidl
But still, I think kinda very firm helping the team being about the people kind of life balance. And you can't go can't go to stir crazy at all. And Kevin's not that. And it's a great tribute to your success, especially you think about the stage and size of the company. Right to be to continue to scale up and grow. And I'd have to say, as much as I hate to say it, is there some part of it attributed to your Providence College prior education?
[00:03:52.110] - Kevin Haverty
Providence College does produce a lot of good salespeople. So, yeah, a lot of my friends from school, we all ended up in sales. Kevin, let me ask you the same question.
[00:04:01.170] - David Nour
You've been there ten years, which is a fabulous tenure for a leader. What has been the biggest surprise for you in that journey? I mean, I think you mentioned when you joined them, there were about one hundred million in revenue and now you're about four and a half billion in revenue. That says, as Sidel mentioned, phenomenal growth. What's been the biggest surprise for you?
[00:04:19.160] - Kevin Haverty
The biggest surprise, nor is our our current CEO, Bill McDermott. He has this expression, dream big. And he sees the big, big dream guy. He's always talking about things that most ordinary people think are unattainable. And what I realized over all these years is whenever I'm dreaming big or think I'm dreaming big, I'm not dreaming big enough. If you had told me 10 years ago, ServiceNow would be finished twenty twenty with four-point five dollars billion in sales and that would have one hundred and fifteen billion dollar market cap and a five billion dollar run rate right now, I wouldn't have believed that that was possible.
[00:04:58.120] - Kevin Haverty
So even when you stretch it and you think and all we could do more we could we could be more valuable to our customer, we could be bigger and better. The reality is the opportunity in front of all of us is actually way bigger than most of us realize.
[00:05:12.780] - David Nour
And that was that theme of the podcast then. And I love that your comment was was our own limitations. Our own thinking is what's holding us back from doing great. Thanks, Randy. I think we've got a question from from a YouTube viewer.
[00:05:27.370] - David Nour
OK, that's good that you can see that because I can't. All right, so let me jump in. Somebody asking I'm an SDR today, Kevin. What do I need to do to become a S.R.O. someday in the future? So give us I'm going to expand on this on this question. Give us this path. What do you believe it takes from. I'm a young, hungry, scrappy, sharp, intelligent kind of SDR BTR today. Give me that path to increased responsibility.
[00:05:57.970] - David Nour
Increased of responsibilities. Yeah.
[00:06:01.870] - Kevin Haverty
So I love this question. You're an SDR. First off, be the best SDR you can possibly be. You're going to get your next assignment based on how good you do with your current assignment. And SDR is a good one because that's a tough job. Most of us did a job like that early in their career. I did. And I used to pound the phones. I used to have people hang up on me, tell me not to want to talk to me, all that stuff.
[00:06:30.010] - Kevin Haverty
It's a grind and it builds a great foundation for you to be for you to be a great leader down the road. Randy, I saw you raise your hand. I'm sure you're proud of your days when you were an SDR, you know, because I hung tough and I fought my way through it. So that embrace the challenge of the job and use it to motivate you. And then the other thing I would say is look around your organization and find somebody who's at that next level who can be your mentor, either officially or unofficially, and do observe what they do, pick their brain, find out why they're successful in their role.
[00:07:13.450] - Kevin Haverty
And then before you know it, you'll be in a position to go for a role like that. And that that process just repeats itself nor all the way up the chain. And each one of the roles that that you can aspire to is really just the next one up the chain. And if you keep executing, have a great attitude, be part of the optimism on how we figure things out. And don't be part of the water cooler crowd who's gossiping about all the things that are wrong.
[00:07:41.800] - Kevin Haverty
You'll find your way.
[00:07:43.570] - David Nour
Let's talk about the role of sales and the S.R.O. with your peers. I'm a big believer, Kevin, of value creation and value delivery. Talk a little about the relationships you've had to build with your peers and along the way to build that nurturing, that trusting relationship that everybody kind of carries their own way to create the success you have.
[00:08:09.430] - Kevin Haverty
Are you talking about the peers in the C Suite? So like the CFO and the marketing? Yeah. So, you know, everybody has their function in all of our functions, have their challenges. So when you're a S.R.O., what you you really can't do is just focus on the sales team like, hey, it's all about the sales team. I need to do what's good for the sales team. You're really going to think about the company and you have to balance the needs of the sales organization across all the other departments, too.
[00:08:40.270] - Kevin Haverty
So we have a great relationship across the C Suite at ServiceNow. We're all honest with each other. We shoot straight, and all of our all of our agendas don't always line up one hundred percent, but we find the common ground. So it's just like any other team. You have to be open and honest with one another. And when this conflict get it on the table and address it and work it out. And that's how you become a team working through conflict and coming to a common resolution that works for both parties.
[00:09:12.880] - Kevin Haverty
It might not be one hundred percent what you were looking for, but if you're aligned, you're going to keep moving forward.
[00:09:19.270] - David Nour
Sitel, I'm going to come back to you. Do you believe it's gotten and then I'm going to ask Kevin the same. Do you believe it's gotten more difficult or easier to find onboard train great talent in sales organizations during this pandemic?
[00:09:36.140] - Randy Seidl
Yeah, I think those are probably those three things are probably two different things, one is finding and the other is kind of onboarding and training. And I think the kind of finding is kind of how good is your bench, how good your network put in a shameless plug, top talent recruiting. But you always want to have somebody that forget about all the different attributes and questions, everything else. But I always find the number one thing is, you know, somebody that knows that person well firsthand, either through customers or partners or other relationships.
[00:10:05.900] - Randy Seidl
And too often people waste tons of time going through the interview cycle, don't do the reference check till the end and then do reference check with somebody they don't know, which I'd argue is useless and wrong. And then secondly, around that kind of onboarding and training, as soon as you can get get people on board and going, obviously the better service now is one of the best at doing this, because obviously putting the money into it like they do to invest in the people, yield some fantastic results, which they've had.
[00:10:32.810] - Randy Seidl
So, Kevin, I'm going to build on that. Talk us talk a little about your talent strategy. What are you finding? Sharpe folks, how are you developing? How are you giving them that path to broader responsibilities and greater impact?
[00:10:47.330] - Kevin Haverty
Yeah, well, first off, I want to say that really does do that because he's speaking to me a number of times over the years asking me, hey, I see you used to work with this person. You know that person. I agree. It's always the informal reference that they don't give you that has more insight than the reference name that they do give you and really definitely follows that. But what I would tell you, nor is our our strategy on finding people is in two areas.
[00:11:15.050] - Kevin Haverty
One is we hire people from the other enterprise software companies. You want to find the players who are at the other companies who are kind of in the same space as you. That works great. The challenge with that is that's a zero sum game. We're kind of, to a certain extent, stealing each other's people back and forth. So so what you also have to do is get the early career people and get them in the early career roles and then nurture them and grow them up through the organization.
[00:11:46.670] - Kevin Haverty
There's so many benefits that and all the great companies do it. You can improve your diversity around gender, around race. You can also develop them to be more loyal. If you train them right and you get them really on message and get them passionate for the company's culture, they'll stick around longer and they'll be more satisfied in their role. So it's kind of two pronged. It's go on, get the best in the market and then grow the ones that are that are up and coming in their careers.
[00:12:17.570] - David Nour
Is that the up and coming to farm system that that Sidel is talked about? EMC was so famous for hiring great college grads and molding them into the professionals you want them to become?
[00:12:30.470] - Kevin Haverty
Totally. It's that's where I learned it. Right, because EMC did a really good job of that. But but the one thing I would add a nuance on the farm system is these people are in their roles to produce to. One of the things that we're always careful about is, hey, an SDR needs to be in their role for eighteen to twenty four months, I believe, because it takes a while for them to get really good at that usually.
[00:12:57.200] - Kevin Haverty
And what you don't want is six months as an SDR and then somebody grabs them and puts them in a field role. They have to like really get get good and produce a return because if if you're not getting productivity ATSDR organization, then it becomes a very expensive farm system.
[00:13:14.890] - David Nour
And I, I remind people the farm system only works when you produce that you get the chance to go to the big leagues. Right. So you've got to you've got to deliver the results.
[00:13:25.280] - Randy Seidl
I've got a you I had I did figure out how to look at these here. So there's that two questions here. I made a combine into one. One is from Jane Kevin, who said, how do I work with my marketing team? I'm not getting any leads. I would say typical line from sales. And then Eric said, as a CFO, how do you measure success in your marketing department? So maybe just around the whole topic of marketing, you can share some thoughts.
[00:13:50.030] - Kevin Haverty
Yeah, marketing and sales. Boy, we're like we're like siblings who love each other and and we like to fight sometimes, too. Right. I would say that if you're an individual contributor and you're frustrated with what you're getting from marketing, check what your peers who's getting a lot out of marketing. Right. Sometimes it may be it may be how you're communicating with them. Right. So I think there are some reps who get the most out of their SVR or get the most out of the marketing department because they share what they need.
[00:14:23.780] - Kevin Haverty
And they they they say, hey, here's my territory. These are what my goals are, how can you help me? And they kind of come at it from a teamwork standpoint. I'm not saying you're not doing that, but if you're not, you should be trying to do. And then really, what was the other part of the question? Kind of combine it with the TV set on the rep side, which I think you covered, and then as a crow, how do you measure success in your marketing department?
[00:14:47.870] - Randy Seidl
And I don't know what service now, does it report into you or your peers or how does that work?
[00:14:53.840] - Kevin Haverty
The star organization reports into the marketing organization, reports into the CMO whose appear so the way the way we do it in service now is marketing is a is a major player in the pipeline development. So we have pipeline metrics that we measure, and then we have pipeline sources, and we want a certain percentage for marketing, a certain percentage from the sales reps on their own initiatives, and then a certain percentage from the partner community. But we also all kind of from a frame of mind standpoint, we think of it as the company's pipeline and not just the marketing created pipeline.
[00:15:32.030] - Kevin Haverty
The sales create a pipeline because we're in it together. So there are a lot of metrics around Pipeline. And I always say the answer to a lot of the challenges in sales is more qualified pipeline. So you have to stay out all the time.
[00:15:48.950] - David Nour
I want to switch gears to something else mentioned in our podcast, which was trends from this pandemic. And more importantly, Kevin, what do your team is thinking about doing differently? You mentioned the opportunity to go faster. You mentioned opportunity of deficiency in getting people together for a minute of what is the sales organization at ServiceNow doing differently and how are you benefiting from this covid tailwind?
[00:16:19.370] - Kevin Haverty
Yeah, well, we're in the digital transformation part of the business. And so we're one of the one of the companies that's actually doing really well through the pandemic. Not that it's not without its challenges. So one of the things that we're doing is we're making sure that our customers understand the value proposition that the new platform delivers. We have a lot of machine learning and I that's into the platform. It's in our more advanced offerings. And a lot of our customers are using the basic offerings.
[00:16:49.940] - Kevin Haverty
So it's about educating our customers to say, hey, if you went to the pro version of the ServiceNow product, you would get this machine learning, and you'd be able to do more work with fewer people that have been around forever. But with the pandemic, I'll give you a quick story. We a customer who was a hospital, a non for profit hospital, the elective procedures are effectively gone since it started or severely reduced. Their funding coming in the front door is way down, and they're all having to deliver on helping people.
[00:17:21.170] - Kevin Haverty
Kobe so the staff, unfortunately, had to be reduced by twenty five percent. The workload didn't get reduced at all. The number of incidents are exactly where they were last year. So they took a ServiceNow project that was on their roadmap that probably would have been 12 months out. And they accelerated it to 30 days and got it into production and allowed that same staff to do twenty five percent more work. Those types of stories around increasing productivity go from being a good idea to a have to have a lot of situations.
[00:17:54.440] - Kevin Haverty
So for us, it's a matter of making sure we're across from our customers and making sure they understand the power of what they have potentially if they do it right and bringing them along to the journey.
[00:18:06.590] - Randy Seidl
Kevin? Randi, along the same lines, what are some of the things you've seen other tech companies and other executives similar to Kevin, think about maybe do differently because of the pandemic? I think Kevin said in the podcast, I think you just have to go accelerate and just go faster in all ways. And one thing that Kevin kind of subtly touched on, but you think about the value of your solution, you kind of gone are the days where you got 30 or 50 pages of slides and PowerPoint and all this stuff, which I still see people doing.
[00:18:41.440] - Randy Seidl
But as he said, kind of narrow it down. But if you would bump into the CFO in the elevator of that hospital or your bank or manufacturing company, retail company, or whatever, what are you going to say if you're trying to get a deal done? What are you going to say? You have 30 seconds, right? You're not you're not going to go through all this techno mumbo jumbo if you talk about patience, productivity, effectiveness, if it's a for profit, you're going to talk about generating revenue, saving money, maybe for compliance or keeping them out of jail.
[00:19:10.810] - Randy Seidl
And it's really kind of taking all the technical mumbo jumbo and really equating it from a business perspective. Those that do that service now does it great. Those that do that are going to sell their deals faster, sooner or better. And they're going to get a bigger share of the wallet because it's a no brainer.
[00:19:28.160] - David Nour
Why is again, it's an example of great advice from from leaders like Kevin and Randy for our audience, as Randy alluded to, please use the chat or the question section and YouTube and Facebook to jump in. And we want to make sure we pause and take your questions. Kevin, you contributed to the sales book Randy Sitel is writing. Yes. I'm fascinated by your comments around the lone wolf idea. Yes. Talk a little about that. Talk a little about what have you seen and and your perspective on the lone wolf idea.
[00:20:05.740] - Kevin Haverty
Yeah, the lone wolf is not what you want to be if you're a seal.
[00:20:12.520] - Randy Seidl
[00:20:14.030] - Kevin Haverty
So I even looked it up on my shows. For most information, Wikipedia and the lone wolf really exist. It's such a thing. It's a it's a wolf that for one reason or another got separated from the pack. And it's not a good existence because when you're with the pack, you're taking down gazelle and and I don't know, giraffes. And when you're a lone wolf, you're eating squirrels and rabbits. And that's how it is in sales to.
[00:20:42.130] - David Nour
Right. So this phenomenon of a salesperson who just doesn't want to work with others or can't collaborate to leverage their resources, it's a it's a quick path to the downward spiral of failure in sales. And there's two reasons why I think it happens. One is it's it's a rep who isn't there yet. And there they're embarrassed by that. And they want to kind of hide that fact. So they're trying to just muscle their way through it, and they don't want to expose their weaknesses.
[00:21:11.590] - Kevin Haverty
That's a tough one. You're going to ask for help. You got to you got to your manager want you to succeed if you're a salesperson. So they'll be willing to help you if you ask for help. The other is the other extreme, which is a reckless, overconfident. I don't need any help. I got this, and they're just going to go it alone. Both of those under confident and trying to hide it and overconfident, try to do everything themselves are not the right model.
[00:21:37.660] - Kevin Haverty
So that's what we call the lone wolf. And I say often it's ServiceNow. The lone wolf is extinct, and if any are still in the organization, you got to change your ways because you're past your expiration with some fun with it, with the storytelling. It makes it memorable. But what we're really saying is self collaboratively, use your resources to good account planning and get people on your agenda to help you be successful. And the most successful reps have seen this through my whole career are the ones who are good at that.
[00:22:07.360] - David Nour
So, Randy, we've got a great question from Rachel on rev ups. Absolutely.
[00:22:12.100] - Randy Seidl
She says, I run sales for a small organization. We struggle with ops. What are your views on rev ops and central operations? And how is service now set up that you put in a plug for Milty? But I'll let you answer the question.
[00:22:29.440] - Kevin Haverty
Yeah. You don't get much done in sales without a great ops organization, Milty. Our friend really Jim Middleton works for us. He's one of our great sales ops people. We have we have a really good sales ops organization at ServiceNow, and we're very much in partnership with them. And I don't know if you're talking about financial ops and it's outside the sales organization or what, but we were very specific to make sure that Ops is is part of the sales organization.
[00:23:02.770] - Kevin Haverty
So we're aligned, but they're also very close and there's a great interlock with finance. I've been around when ops and finance are out of sync, and that's not a good place to be because then everything gets gets questioned. And when there's a lack of trust there, it's. It's just an overhang on the business, so it's really important to make sure that finance ops and sales are all aligned so then you can go faster. Ops really plays a big role in helping territory planning, giving you the dashboard you need.
[00:23:35.270] - Kevin Haverty
So your information's at your fingertips, and you can make informed decisions and that they can automate. There's so much innovation going on in sales. If you have a great ops team who can automate a lot of these functions. It takes out the friction and let you go faster.
[00:23:50.780] - David Nour
So if you're just joining us, you're listening to Kevin Haverty is the chief rabbit officer at ServiceNow. Randy Seidel is CEO of the sales community. And this really is a great chance for you to engage these two very accomplished leaders and literally asking anything you want to know. So that's a good one from our old friend, Kevin Purcell. Kevin Bill McDermott is, as Randi mentioned, one of those big personalities, one of those very visible, very viable, very omnipresent CEOs.
[00:24:25.820] - David Nour
What's been the impact that Bill's created meant to you personally and to service now?
[00:24:31.900] - Kevin Haverty
Yeah, while he's a powerhouse, Bill is one of these guys who will push you harder than you really want to be pushed at the same time, make you glad that you're doing it and motivate you to. And he does it because he's always optimistic, and it's always positive and always constructive. And he's like that in a big group, whether it's sales kickoff and there's five thousand people in the room or if it's just you and he together in one room or these days on one Zoom call.
[00:25:07.910] - Kevin Haverty
So he is a special ability to to stay positive, but be very demanding and and push people to to their full potential. So he's been he's been hugely impressive force on service now. And then for me is the CRO having a CEO who came up the ranks through and through sales. It's great because everything I talked to him about, he gets it. He knows he'll say to me, hey, I walked in your shoes. I know exactly what you're talking about.
[00:25:40.970] - Kevin Haverty
So getting alignment with him as a sales leader is kind of a natural title.
[00:25:46.730] - Kevin Haverty
I'm going to ask you the other side of the question. What happens to Carlos who go to a company and the CEO's personality is either overwhelming or overbearing or there's friction? What, what, what what do you suggest? What do you coach them to kind of think about in that scenario? You can take a extreme, or maybe it's a technical founder, CEO, and they think the product should just sell itself, and if sales isn't doing it, who cares about the releases or whether it works or not?
[00:26:16.880] - Randy Seidl
Our customers are happy. Just buy and sell. So those areas we have a lot of our mutual friends are looking at jobs. I always say, see, what really is the culture of the CEO? Because, Kevin, I have also had some friends where the CEO probably should be shot. But guess what? S.R.O. is the one that gets shot and just see my team. I forgot what the number is. I think it's 18 months or something like that is the average tenure of a crow.
[00:26:40.070] - Randy Seidl
So I think to your point, you got to kind of really be careful of what you do. How do you do it? One thing I advise people to do is if you can get connectivity to the board so that way they know what's going on. If the CEO does not let the crow present or talk to the board, that's a red flag. But making sure you understand what the issues are and where you need help, what's going on.
[00:27:01.460] - Randy Seidl
So if and when you miss the numbers, at least they know you can kind of say, hey, I told you ahead of time, and then I'll go back to what Kevin said about Bill. I've met him a couple of times. You wouldn't know me, but I know he and Mark Hurd rest his soul were very tight. And you could probably attest it's kind of good news, bad news in terms of having somebody really no sales because they don't know if you can kind of kind of skate by and some things.
[00:27:24.950] - Randy Seidl
But when they do know they're on and hold you accountable, which I always found was great to have that as a challenge. Every QB. It's like, OK, I'm going to make sure I know. I know every answer, every question. You have a similar thing.
[00:27:38.330] - Kevin Haverty
Yes. Yeah, that that's that's one of the things about raising your game because he's he's seen the movie. He was in it. So there's no there's no kind of spinning it and and I just embrace it. You could look with two ways. You could say, hey, I'd rather work for a CEO who's not sales savvy so I can be the sales expert. And there's something to be said for that. But CEOs, you see, so I think you just figure out what kind of CEO you have, either a technical founder, CEO or everybody has a different background.
[00:28:11.750] - Kevin Haverty
In fact, just tell you real quick at ServiceNow, Frank Sluman, the CEO who I work for in the first part of the journey, Frank came up through the ranks as a product guy. He's very much has that kind of DNA underneath. You understand sales very well. But at his core, he was a product guy, John Donahoe, who's now CEO of Nike. Donahoe was a consultant. He was a consultant at Bain for a good long time and eventually became their CEO.
[00:28:39.320] - Kevin Haverty
But at his core, he's a consultant, and Bill is a sales leader. At his core, he's he's now an executive and a CEO. So you just find the pieces of what they bring to the table, get the most out of that and then play your role accordingly.
[00:28:54.290] - David Nour
Not that there's anything wrong with consultants and coaches. I mean, some of them are fine, fine people. I'm just clarifying for our audience. So I'm going to paraphrase Eric's question. Kevin, what's top of mind for you? What is I don't like the question of what keeps you up at night. Sometimes I think in heartburn.
[00:29:15.290] - David Nour
But what's what's really priorities for you this this next year?
[00:29:19.400] - Kevin Haverty
OK, well, I'm glad you didn't ask me what keeps me up at night, because the real answer is nothing. I sleep like a baby. I always have. It's one of my skills to success right there.
[00:29:30.740] - Kevin Haverty
I don't know why. It's just how I'm wired. But what's top of mind for us in the business is we have very aggressive goals. With great success comes great expectations. And then we take those expectations and push them even harder. So we aspire to be the defining enterprise software company of the twenty first century. That's a pretty big dream. And to make that happen, we have to be great at customer success. We need to make sure that our customers get the value.
[00:30:03.200] - Kevin Haverty
They get more than what they signed up for, and then they come back and use us to solve more problems. So there's a lot to that, making sure that we have the right coverage around the world, making sure that we're attracting and retaining the right talent, and that we're going out to the right markets. It's one of the great things about a job, as is so many parts to it, and you never feel like you've got it just right.
[00:30:26.240] - Kevin Haverty
So you're always kind of fixing things and building things and adding to things. So it's a it's a very intellectually challenging role. And and the nice thing is we keep score. You always know it's one of the few jobs out there, right where it's black and white on whether you're getting it done or not. And I personally like that. I know anybody who's in sales does. I'd probably struggle in a job where it wasn't as black and white as that, and it was a little more vague on what your contribution was.
[00:30:56.540] - David Nour
So I'm really, really curious about this question from both sides. You must start with Sitel. You've been at this for a while. You. You certainly understand the sales process, you understand the nuance as you understand exceptional talent. Randy, how are you learning? How are you growing? I know it's one of your visions and passions for the sales community, but you as a leader, I've always believed the day you stop learning, the day you become complacent and you're no longer valuable to your relationship.
[00:31:24.310] - David Nour
So how are you learning? How are you growing?
[00:31:26.910] - Randy Seidl
Yeah, I'll tell you a lot through because of sales community, there's this whole kind of sales, marketing, technology companies and businesses that exist out there that to be honest, I really don't even know about the sales methodologies, medic and forest management and Visualize and Sandler winning by design. And you always have to be careful listing them because you're always going to forget some obvious ones. But that whole world is really something that's kind of come up. In the past 10 years or so, a lot of companies are adopting it.
[00:31:57.330] - Randy Seidl
I would argue in the old days we kind of roll around, which is a combination of all of it. Now it's great to standardize and train. And then with all these other kinds of insights, Square is a different kind of marketing technology companies. You know, that's something that I really didn't know, to be honest, that existed a year or two ago. And obviously, it's a huge, huge system, an area that's around there. And then I'd come back to still the as I said before, kind of you bump into an elevator, the CFO, still old school, kind of just newspaper business sections, the business weeks, the fortunes and The Wall Street Journal.
[00:32:29.850] - Randy Seidl
And I'd say probably every single day from the Journal and The Boston Globe, just play some snippet that I can point out that I can send to somebody. Mary Beth Costello, who's run sales for the America's Next, think they're in the Boston Globe yesterday, and they're just doing a funding round over a billion dollars. Hey, Mary Beth, that's great.
[00:32:48.030] - David Nour
So, anyway, those are a couple of things for some of our younger audience.
[00:32:52.260] - David Nour
What's this newspaper that you speak to online? So Florida. So I can't get the globe delivered here now.
[00:32:59.710] - David Nour
So I did this with my kids, you know, like, what are you doing, Dad? That's the way we saw all that went up. Kevin, let me ask you the same question. How are you learning? How are you growing as an accomplished S.R.O. and obviously a very successful company?
[00:33:14.710] - Kevin Haverty
Yeah, well, I, I first off, we have this expression ServiceNow hungry and humble. And I always I always stay humble or try to stay humble in that I have so much to learn. And I like being surrounded by people who are smart. Bring something to the table that I don't have a lot of times that comes from the people in the organization that are much earlier in their career, the way better at technology. They are more in tuned at the leading edge things.
[00:33:46.110] - Kevin Haverty
I've been amazed at how much innovation there's been in technology as it relates to sales. So a company like Dreft that has the ability to, through conversational marketing, help you build pipeline leveraging automation. We use artificial intelligence. We now have artificial intelligence calling the number. And now I have to be compared to that on how I can call the number. But it's to it's to actually help inform you and give you another data point from triangulation on being able to guide the business.
[00:34:21.840] - Kevin Haverty
But there's so much to to learn and everybody can teach you something if you if you're open to it.
[00:34:29.850] - David Nour
Is that the CRO version of you competing with Watson? I got a who's got the no.
[00:34:34.620] - David Nour
It's like Jeopardy and Watson and I got my own Watson quickly call in the number and so wants to know what are the key attributes you look for, Kevin, in hiring sales leaders, what are you particularly looking for? And then I want to talk about the attributes you shed, not podcast about sales reps as well, but talk about sales leaders per second.
[00:34:57.450] - Kevin Haverty
So if it's an internal person I look to or I ask if they're the informal leader of the team. So if you think of a sales team, let's say it's six reps and there's a sales manager, one of those six reps is respected by the other five more than the others. And it's the go to person who they ask for help when they don't want to talk to their manager about it. I call it the informal leader of the team. And it's not always the best salesperson, by the way.
[00:35:25.380] - Kevin Haverty
A lot of times it is, but it's not necessarily. It's also somebody who's a great teammate and who likes helping other people, and that's why they're approachable and their peers go to them. So if it's an internal hire, I find out who's the informal leader of that team. And if it's not this person, then that's not the right move. Then we don't make it. So that's one thing I look at internally and then externally, the the reputation, the reference checking really was talking about earlier for sure.
[00:35:55.140] - Kevin Haverty
And then the track record of staying at things like this is common knowledge. Right. But the but the person who jumps around every eighteen to twenty. For months, it has a great story to explain away. All four of them in the last six years, they're not first off, they're not getting the interview with me. But if for some reason somebody in my org is trying to spin me on why that's the right person, I don't buy it.
[00:36:20.700] - Kevin Haverty
So I'm not saying somebody needs to be somewhere for a certain period of time, but you have to be able to hang tough through tough times and see-through problems in it. And if every time something's not going your way, you change jobs, you're not really going to build, I don't think a successful long term career. I need people or committed.
[00:36:43.380] - David Nour
One of my friends says, always open your eyes, open your ears, look for who people are cheering for and finally and who they're not cheering for. That's one Landi in terms of sales reps, are there some traits that you see in sales reps that just tells you this person's just going to be a great leader, a great sales leader? I can see I've got a line of sight into their sales management, sales leadership kind of path. I think Kevin kind of touched on this; I think it's those that help others and share best practices in our careers.
[00:37:20.290] - Randy Seidl
We've seen some lone wolves have actually been successful, but I think those are few and far between. So I think kind of sharing best practices, helping others, reaching out, they kind of do all the little details. Well, so you think about doing a little little things, know sales call agenda, doing a thank you and recap note, having great relationships, knowing one when the partner ecosystem. Well, if there is one having a great relationship with end-user customers, having those end-user customers actually make referrals into into some of their friends.
[00:37:52.460] - Randy Seidl
So it's kind of a combination of all those things. And as we've seen as well, sometimes I look back on Kevin if you do, but you have some that are individual contributors, have a great life and they just deal with that. So we sell a lot of young people. It's not all about easy for us to say, but it's not all about to say I want to be the up and go to management. There are lots of people that have had great lives, have made a lot of money, have a great life balance, great long weekends, whatever they want to go by being individual contributors as well.
[00:38:24.820] - Randy Seidl
Yeah, I think I think that's why it's important to understand what people what do you what do you want to do? And if it's somebody who loves selling and that's great. Let's let's go. Let's keep going. Some people even love I want to stay an inside sales because I don't I don't like having to travel. And so so there's there's great talent for the appropriate role all over the organization.
[00:38:49.000] - Randy Seidl
Again, just to clarify for my audience, what does this travel thing that you speak of? My passport has got a stamp from my back yard on my kitchen and my living room, but that's the extent of it, Randi. I think we've got a good question from Kamden.
[00:39:04.030] - Randy Seidl
Yes, and actually, before I do that, I miss Dick Wolf's, so Dick said I'm interviewing with an implementation partner for ServiceNow. If you are interviewing, what would you say is most important to get across? Then he said, P.S., long time since sitting in your driveway. But anyway, so feedback on interviewing Kevin, none of it makes a difference being a interviewing for an implementation partner for ServiceNow or just interviewing in general.
[00:39:31.630] - Kevin Haverty
Yeah, I mean, part of the interview is what what are your do you have the right background? So people are doing due diligence, like there might be some things required. So they're checking the boxes. But the other part of the interview is who are you as a person? What what do you bring to the table? And it's kind of like my kids are of the age where they're applying for colleges. It's not about like trying to get into a college.
[00:39:58.480] - Kevin Haverty
I don't believe. I think it's about finding the appropriate college for you. What's a good fit for who you are? And it's the same thing for a job, you know, trying to land a job. You should be trying to find the appropriate job for you. Is that something that you like to do and something you're good at doing? And so I would say be yourself in the interview, because what you don't want to do is land in a job that isn't the right fit for you.
[00:40:24.310] - Kevin Haverty
And then you're going to be in a situation where you're going to have to change jobs again in the short order of time. So bring your bring your authentic self, as they say to the interview and highlight your strengths and and then see where it lands.
[00:40:39.910] - David Nour
By the way, that is as relevant to senior executives as it is to front line because I'm coaching a leader, brilliant guy, great education, great background in the wrong job and in the wrong company and is miserable and is not at his best and is not producing the results that either side or after. So that introspection to really know who you are and what you want to do and what are you really going to do.
[00:41:05.800] - Randy Seidl
Well, I think it would serve you to kind of think about I think I saw something that Kevin said. So think of authenticity. And I think Kevin exudes this week-long story short bump into Lake Winnipesaukee. We kind of got together. My daughter and a boyfriend like this. What does he do it like? He's the nicest, most sincere, genuine guy. And, well, people that are sincere, genuine, authentic are the ones that got promoted up.
[00:41:30.670] - Randy Seidl
And I would say similarly out of Kevin, you find this or not, but customers, you have the CEOs, the people that are kind of a pain in the butt to sell to the ones that are kind of middle managers forever, but the ones that are senior execs, folks are leaders because they're authentic, because they get it, they understand and they're generally good people. Do you find that? I totally see that. And you know what else, really?
[00:41:53.770] - Kevin Haverty
The people when I was up and coming as a rep, the the the other reps were more senior than me who were helpful and, like, put their arm around you and showed you the way or gave you that reference that you were looking for. Those were the people who are more successful over the course of their career and then the ones who had sharp elbows or a little bit ruthless. Those are the people who who weren't because those characteristics carry through and in time they get they get exposed.
[00:42:22.990] - Kevin Haverty
And so everybody wants to have teams that work well together because they're the most productive teams. And that stuff shines through.
[00:42:32.200] - Randy Seidl
Yeah, I would say treat people you want to be treated then they may be a morbid thought, but kind of in your wake, you know, what do you want to say about yourself anyway? I'll move on from Camden, Kevin said to screen this movie. Kevin, what is the one thing that motivates you to get up every day, work hard and drives you towards success?
[00:42:53.200] - Kevin Haverty
My no. That's one thing that wakes me up every day to do that. The other thing is the team. I have a sense of ownership here. I helped build the team and I want the team to succeed. So I just I feel like it's an obligation. We had the honor. This sounds weird for a Red Sox fan. We had the honor of having Reggie Jackson come into a meeting with us this summer for the executive staff. And I was I almost fell off my chair.
[00:43:26.020] - Kevin Haverty
Reggie Jackson is one of the greatest, even though I wasn't a fan of his teams. And and I got to ask him a question. And I said, Reggie, when you go through a long season, you got one hundred and sixty two games and it's the dog days of summer and everybody's kind of beat. How do you stay motivated? How do you keep your your your level at its highest? Because I think sales is like that. Sales is a grind, and we have our dog days of summer too.
[00:43:54.010] - Kevin Haverty
Sometimes they're in winter. But but what Reggie said, he he told a real great story. He said, you know, we had a stress. Where we were playing in Texas, we had three day games in a row, over one hundred degrees every day, he was exhausted, he was dinged up, he was nursing a hamstring injury and whatever else. And he looked at Thurman Munson. Thurman Munson was dinged up, and he had like a broken knuckle and all these other things.
[00:44:22.600] - Kevin Haverty
And he said, you know, we just looked at each other. We said, let's go get it done, because they they were doing it for each other and all their other teammates. And I was like, wow, that's that's cool. And I like, you know, I was in a very good baseball player, unfortunately. But like, I get to have that same kind of feeling in my business team as a great Major League Baseball player had with his teammates for the Yankees in the great years.
[00:44:47.680] - Kevin Haverty
So that's the type of stuff that you don't get in other professions.
[00:44:53.260] - Kevin Haverty
I was fascinated by him. We'll go to the next question in a second. But Kevin, talk about beyond coaches, mentors, great bosses in your past, and you think of someone who's had a profound impact in shaping the leader you've become. Yeah, well, we all kind of have our heroes. I loved Norman Schwarzkopf, he's one of my idols. I was in I was in the Army and I was in the Gulf War. And he was like at the top and his his leadership and confidence.
[00:45:29.620] - Kevin Haverty
I never met him. Right. But just the way he carried himself made me confident in my job, even though I was a million layers away from him. So I love reading about great leaders like that. And in great people, whether it's just like a sports celebrity who you really admire for their work ethic or a great leader like that who just kind of exudes confidence, I like to just learn about them and and just kind of admire them.
[00:45:59.030] - Kevin Haverty
And Norman Schwarzkopf and I don't know a lot in common. Right. My personality is very different from his what I still observe what he did to to make others feel confident and to motivate them.
[00:46:12.610] - David Nour
Sitel, I'm going to ask you the same question. You you are the epitome of the relationship centric best practices that I that I coach other people to implement. Who's really shaped that? The manager. The leader you've become. That's a great question. So I think it's kind of several Kevin did a great job with picking one, and I know Bill and John and others have had an impact, but I think it's kind of you you're kind of a mosaic.
[00:46:39.790] - Randy Seidl
So I've been fortunate to deliberately have great mentors over my career. So early on at EMC, Dicky and Roger Marino, Jack Egan, for that matter, as well. Bob Reynolds, who runs Putnam. I learned a lot from Bill Campbell. God rest his soul. Greg Brown, Jack Connors in Boston. So I think kind of learning a lot from different attributes from those people that have kind of come before us is of huge value. And I know learning is from the podcast.
[00:47:09.640] - Randy Seidl
You know, learning was something that Kevin, whether you talk about the top rep's top sales managers, top top CEOs, learning what's going on within his top top three list when we go to a question, please. OK, so a new says asks, any thoughts on sales training for new members just out of college? We no longer have the luxury of having new hires in the office with our with happy hours and in-person mentorship. Arms sales training.
[00:47:42.050] - Randy Seidl
Yeah, that is one of the things about the whole new digital world, I think it's it's harder on people early in the career because, you know, I benefited by being in a bullpen when I was early in my career. And I used to listen to other people and sometimes would be hilarious. Other times it would be really informational because you kind of heard different tactics and you get that esprit de corps. But I would start with the sales community.
[00:48:08.900] - Kevin Haverty
Show us selfish plug, Randy. But this content in there and when you're when you're trying to figure it out, just be a sponge and absorb that content and then and then put it to work, give it a try. And I would say just because you're not in the same office with your peers, call each other and ask. I used to ask, hey, you know, I've heard this objection three times. What do you what do you say when people say this?
[00:48:36.050] - Kevin Haverty
I've really tripped over it and compare notes. And then I'll mention one other thing that we did early on it at ServiceNow, Jeff Saint-Laurent did this. He found four reps. And in the early days, this wasn't easy to find who had been there for over a year, who were successful. And he set up conference calls for anybody who was new, less than six months to just round-robin, hit them with objections, and hear how they would handle.
[00:49:02.250] - Kevin Haverty
And so it was kind of it was by the field and for the field and it was all grounded in reality. Hey, I get hit with this objection. I was flat footed. My answer didn't go well. How would you answer this? And those types of sessions and conversations are worth their weight in gold.
[00:49:18.740] - David Nour
I knew I'm going to give an old school example. Years ago I sold that Silicon Graphics and I used to send out I Kid You Not Cassette Tapes. And again, for a younger audience, these square things you put in the right.
[00:49:32.030] - David Nour
And there were interviews of sales reps and sales managers from across the country that had done really well. And they talked a lot about not just the successes, but a lot of the setbacks. Right. Some of these long sales campaigns. What did you do? How did you do it? How did you push back against those other forces and competitors and budgets? And those were invaluable because we'd spent a ton of time, windshield time in the car. And you'd listen to these now.
[00:49:57.980] - David Nour
You could easily do an internal podcast. You could easily do these, ask people anything kind of sessions. But it's critical to bring the wisdom, the experience, the ups and the downs. If everything's rosy, you're going to lose your credibility because not everybody believes it's all perfect.
[00:50:14.990] - David Nour
Where are we failing? Where are we coming short and how can we learn from those? Right. So great, great responses. Sitel, I'm interested, intrigued by Rachel's question. And and Kevin, this is going to be a little tough one, but it's an important one, which is what do you do to promote equity within the service now sales organization? What are you doing to bring ethnic diversity, gender diversity, cognitive diversity, but also really create an environment where, based on their performance, everybody can learn and grow, lead and really become a better version of themselves?
[00:50:52.250] - Kevin Haverty
Yeah, well, we're doing a lot of things. One is we're measuring, we're holding ourselves accountable. We have our internal goals and measures on all the different levers of diversity. So that's one thing that we're doing. The other thing is setting up territories. That affair, a tendency is for a sales manager to load up the people who he or she has a lot of confidence in and then kind of starve the newer people coming in until they prove themselves.
[00:51:25.490] - Kevin Haverty
And then that's a dangerous game, because if you load up the people, you have confidence and they have these fat territories, they're only going to get the low hanging fruit. So you're going to miss a lot of opportunities for somebody who's going to push you in a little bit harder. So I would say having having territories that are balanced and that are fair, given people skill sets and not not just going with the go to or whatever, is really a key part of it.
[00:51:53.390] - Kevin Haverty
And that would probably be one of those things where if something kept me up at night, that would keep me up at night worrying whether or not we have our territory set up. Right. And then we have our more more experienced people really pushing. Nobody should have a lay up territory or quota. And our new people are territories that are fair enough. And we work really hard to have it be fair and balanced regardless of any type of diversity measure.
[00:52:20.270] - David Nour
[00:52:21.020] - David Nour
Brandon, we've got a couple more good questions. I strenuously object to the Brady from Atlanta. Brady is a deep cut that I just don't need to bring up anymore.
[00:52:32.000] - David Nour
But we've got a couple of other questions coming up.
[00:52:35.580] - Randy Seidl
Twenty eight to three, does that mean anything to you that's just called? So we are going to get to these questions, we have seven minutes left to the top of the hour. Also for folks, if you don't mind, if you want, feel free to post a testimonial in terms of feedback on this, how you liked it. And we use that when we post this to help other more people come and see this story. So, Rick, Diane, Rick, and a couple of comments for Boston fan like Kevin has the courage to talk about Reggie than this New Yorker would like to hear his opinion on that singular quality.
[00:53:10.460] - Randy Seidl
Tom Brady possesses one be transmitted into the sales culture. And you did speak about that on the podcast.
[00:53:20.670] - Randy Seidl
The question is a trait of Tom Brady, Tom Brady, and I'll prompt you a little bit about should you worry about the prior quarter or the future quarters?
[00:53:28.890] - Kevin Haverty
Yeah, yeah. That's that's Tom Brady's biggest thing in my book is when when they ask him, what's your favorite championship? And now he is seven, he always says the next one and you don't get seven by thinking about whether it was one. Number one. Number two. Number three before. He's always focused on what's ahead and that's what the best sales leaders do. My boss and mentor for 16 years, David Schneider, who just retired, Schneider was always, always focused on what's ahead of us.
He never, ever was was too focused on his past successes. And that's a that's a big one. You got you got to stay focused on getting what's ahead of you. And once in a while, take the time to enjoy your success. I'm not saying you should be miserable. All the worried about you. No, but if you keep your energy and you focus on how do I get better and how do I make sure we continue to succeed, you're always going to be better off, right?
[00:54:32.880] - David Nour
Yeah. Yeah, I like it. A couple of other good questions. They want to jump in with those.
[00:54:37.830] - Kevin Haverty
Renney Sure. Matt, Matt Doherty. I don't know if you guys ever connected, but anyway. Hi, Kevin. Start service now. Curious to hear your perspective on service now is value based selling methodology and any tips you have. Yeah, our our the now value methodology, we took a lot of industry-standard practices and baked them all together specific to ServiceNow and it's a wheel and it's about Envision success. That's the first phase. This is where we teach our customer the art of the possible.
[00:55:13.080] - Kevin Haverty
We identify the business issues, and then we propose solutions that that solve those business issues. The next phase is to create value. This is where we put the solution that they bought into production in partnership with them. So consider that the implementation phase and a lot of companies stop there, right? Well, the next phase is validating that value. So we're going to come back in and we're going to say, hey, this is what you signed up for, and then this is what we're delivering on.
[00:55:39.240] - Kevin Haverty
And then you define that value and you quantify it and you document it. And then the final phase is champion success. So we'll tell our customers we're going to make you so successful that you're going to want to stand on a stage and share your story with the world. And if you're willing to do that, that means we did our job, and you'll be in a good position to do your job. And so what we love about this methodology is it benefits us.
[00:56:03.420] - Kevin Haverty
It benefits our customers. And then if we if we do it well, that cycle repeats itself. And if we do it fast, it repeats itself faster. That means more business for us, more value for our customers.
[00:56:15.510] - David Nour
So I'm going to I'm going to get us wrapping up towards the top of the hour by asking you I'm going to start with Sitel, your biggest aspiration, the biggest thing you're looking forward to in the after covid post-pandemic world for face to face shmooze.
[00:56:33.270] - Randy Seidl
We have this thing, Wellsley Technology Council, which is just a bunch of Boston area technology executives getting together in Boston, looking forward to doing the same thing down here in Naples and getting back on the road.
[00:56:44.250] - David Nour
Kevin, how about you looking highest aspiration? What what do you want to do most in this after covid world?
[00:56:51.360] - Kevin Haverty
Yeah, boy, this one sounds kind of ordinary, but over the years working for ServiceNow with headquarters in Santa Clara, the Santa Clara Marriott is kind of my home away from home. And it is for a lot of ServiceNow people. And we kind of got in the habit of just hanging out there in the lobby in the evening, having a few beers and enjoying watching whatever game was on or catching up on work. And I would love to go and hang out at the Santa Clara Marriott, my favorite bar, and catch up with all my friends out there who travel in from around the world.
[00:57:26.010] - David Nour
I was I was telling somebody else a couple of weekends ago, I actually flew to L.A. and I have a leadership program. I said, you may not realize this, but in person is a thing that in person is a thing that and it was so weird to travel again, then rent a car and stay in a hotel. And we did covid test a couple of times. And but it's as human beings with attacked and we I think we all miss that human interaction.
[00:57:51.870] - David Nour
So on behalf of Randy Sitel.
[00:57:54.390] - David Nour
Yeah, my name is David nor you've been listening to the sales community Tech Sales Insight Live Stream. I want to thank Kevin Haverty, their Chief Revenue Officer Service, not for being our guest. We hope you'll continue to come back. As Randy mentioned, service council, great community to learn and grow and share ideas, share perspectives. So come join us in the sales community. I'm one of the founding advisory board members as well as we publish a weekly podcast.
[00:58:22.680] - David Nour
Kevin was our guest this morning. And we're going to continue to invite our future guests to join us on these live streams to share and and share your comments, questions and give you a chance to learn from the absolute best in technology sales. Randee, any closing thoughts? Absolutely.
[00:58:40.470] - Randy Seidl
I'd be remiss if I didn't bring up our session tomorrow and a can't believe I don't know the exact time off the top of my head.
[00:58:50.070] - Randy Seidl
I apologize. Here we go. Four PM East nor hosts we session called your ten X, which is once every month. It's on strategic relationship planning. That's actually also a live virtual zoom. You're actually there in person in that one. So definitely encourage everybody to look at that. We have Ken Doherty from Dell coming on next week. So looking forward to a similar format. And Kevin, such a great job. Thank you so very much. And for those that are not members of the sales community, you can go to sales community dotcom.
[00:59:22.980] - Randy Seidl
We have a 30 day free trial. It's a no brainer. So if you want to learn more, sell more, make more money with a big focus on this whole digital transformation, not just of your customers, but of what we're all doing, that what you're all doing in sales. So really appreciate it. Always open any feedback in the chat. Some you've already doing it. Feel free to give any feedback or testimonials. And most importantly, thank you, Kevin.
[00:59:46.440] - Randy Seidl
Thanks, Kevin. Thanks, guys. Thanks for having me. I enjoyed the conversation. Great to have you.
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